#gross toxic old men yaoi

[ebbling]

Sorry tw toxic old man yaoi

[aria-greenhoodie]

Have some meme redraws of the radioactive old man yaoi ft. my Human Bill design again‼️

Click for Quality!

[the-starlight-mistress]

Me in middle school: billford? Shipping an old man with a billion year old demon? That’s so gross and boring, besides it gets in the way of billdip; the 12 yo and the billion year old demon. Which isn’t gross at all 😌

Me now: ford and bill = toxic yaoi and trauma (a feature, not a flaw.) ford and Mcgucket = Two old men in love, healing said trauma. LEAVE DIPPER OUT OF IT HE’S TWELEVE

[bunnyinbedlam]

I haven't posted about Herman and my oc Silas in a long time so here they are !! I'm gonna ramble abt them for a bit bc i love them

Their whole deal is just toxic old man yaoi. Herman canonically is a conservative and very traditional, especially when it comes to issues like war and the military. Very patriotic and libertarian. Silas is none of those things, he's a self described progressive and intellectual, he's very interested in the same subjects as Herman, like weaponry and warfare, and they share mostly all the same hobbies, but when it comes to political stance and values they are very very different. Silas spends a lot of time with Herman, and that means he's also surrounded by a lot of the same conservative, conspiracy theorist bigots. He only tolerates this because of how much he loves Herman, but they do get into a ton of arguments often because of this tension. Silas absolutely hates that Herman is like this, he so desperately wants to make him understand that his prejudices and beliefs are harmful and they will both be a lot happier if he becomes a more accepting and educated person.

Herman is very stubborn and stuck in his ways, though. When they get into feuds like this they might stop talking for a few days, but one of them (usually Herman) reaches out to the other and they try to "make up" (they usually just make out or have sex.)

Herman is bisexual but is very closeted, and Silas is gay and out. Herman's other friends will often tease him for having a gay "friend" and make very gross comments about Silas. Herman mostly brushes them off, much to Silas' discomfort and anger. Their relationship is entirely secret, at least that's what Herman likes to believe. Lots of people suspect they have something going on. Silas will often complain about their relationship to his own friends, who are mostly Springfield's small population of out gay men like Julio Franco and Dewey Largo.

But despite how frustrating and difficult it is for Silas to keep doing this, he does it anyway. He keeps trying to change Herman for the better, he keeps trying to tolerate the horrible offensive shit he is forced to endure, he wants to believe that some day he and Herman can just stop arguing and be a normal couple, despite how much his friends tell him to leave Herman and find someone better.

[greatfay]

Still thinking about that post!! About the platonic male friendships. Annnnnd one thing I’ll say is the whole “why can’t two guys just be friends/it’s so rare to see healthy relationships between men in media” is it’s such bullshit lmao like every fucking movie and tv show and book where the main cast is like “6 cool guys! and this one big-boob girl” what do you think those 6 guys are, strangers shopping in the same aisle at Walmart? NO. They’re fucking friends! Rare, my ass.

And the thing about fujoshi/yaoi shippers that always grossed me out is how they hide behind supposed allyship (and feminism) to be fetishistic and invasive and creepy. And it’s not just “oooh I wonder if they’re gay, I ship them now” (which can be creepy, especially irt real people), but just how comfortable they feel writing/drawing/discussing the finer, explicit sexual details of men and boys with all the humanity, intimacy, and respect stripped away. And to be frank so much of this content is geared toward underaged pairings.

Shipping isn’t a dirty thing. Everyone does it. Even though we think of shipping as actively pursuing or contributing to content about a pairing, you can ship unconsciously. And I think you can ship minors I guess, you can root fir some kid to find love, and that’s technically shipping. But this month alone saw a resurgence in one ship in particular (check tumblr’s fandometrics and you’ll get an idea), and while most of it is harmless content of like boys holding hands for the first time or getting ice cream, and there’s also content generated for their adult selves, there’s a disturbing amount of sexual stuff and that’s not right!!! And if a queer man said something about it like “Hey so uh could you maybe not make this? it’s lowkey pedo” we’d get screamed at and added to a blocklist and sent droves of hate mail about being toxic and policing fandom and oh this one gets me every time “Telling me I, a 31-year-old woman, can’t write fics about two fifteen-year-old boys fucking is misogynistic! I’m expressing my sexuality!”

You know damn well... that if there was an internationally famous girl group called “Five Directions,” and if you content on your dash every day about two of its members, Hannah and Lisa, in a secret lesbian relationship, and fanart and fan fiction created by adult men flooded the tags, there would be hell to pay. You know that would raise a red flag!!! Because it wouldn’t be right, and it’s not right now.

[midnight-fox-boy]

Listen all im all for fiction not always effecting reality. I believe you CAN enjoy certain things seen as problematic without it affecting how you treat people or how you view life.

For instance, you can enjoy raunchy adult comedies like South park and American dad without seeing it as truth (if that makes sense) just because you see homophobic jokes doesnt mean you have to be homophobic because you saw it in media.

You can read and enjoy erotic fiction that may be seen as gross by others. (Bdsm/kink/Even toxic things) without it affecting how you treat others in sexual contexts.

But there is a line you shouldn't cross. You shouldn't consume pedophilic content. Like a 13 year old with an adult. Even if you don't let it affect how you treat others it can still impact reality in a negative way. It's a fact that MAP's will make this content in hopes minors will come across it.

You shoudlnt apply what you see in fiction to reality. If you're someone who enjoys mlm stories, yaoi manga, etc, don't let it make you sexualize mlm relationships. Same for wlw stories, etc. We all know many many straight men fetishize lesbian/wlw/sapphic pairings to the point the act on it in reality.

And the same goes for fanfics about real life people. I watched a YouTuber who had mlm fan fiction written about him and his soon to be ex wife was freaking out about it and accusing him of cheating. Not to mention these fanfics are just uncomfortable for the person if they find them. Real people shouldn't be made into fictional things without their consent.

I mean, if someone wrote an erotic fiction about you and say, themselves, That would probably make you really uncomfortable in more than one way, especially if you already have (a) partner(s).

I enjoy South park, American dad, Bob's burgers, king of the hill, but never once have I used their content to impact people negatively. I'm not going to go around yelling antisemetic "jokes" because I saw it on south park. I'm not going to spread transphobic content because almost all those shows have them (I'm trans btw) Though this would have it's own post specifically for shows that are problematic.

What I'm saying is, enjoy what you want to enjoy but please be mindful of how it may affect others. If you have friends who are triggered by those kinds of shows, don't talk about it to them, respect their boundaries.

Don't see all mlm/wlw relationships as dirty/sinful therefore sexy because of the way many are depicted in manga, anime, or fictional writings. It's fine to find that content as appealing or attractive, I've just seen many occasions where a straight dude watches wlw Porn and goes a step further to see wlw relationships as a fetish. Queer people aren't a fetish. We're people.

People who consume futanari or trap content and apply that to trans women, it's gross.

Note: I am very much having a hard time articulating what I'm trying to say so if anyone wants further clarification on anything i said ill do my best, but please be respectful, as I'm not trying to offend anybody. I'm not an "anti" or "anti anti" I'm in the middle? I guess? I'm definitely anti pedophilic content in any form, being a CSA survivor.

Any of what I said may be innacurate and I'm happy to learn more with an open mind. So people on both sides of this argument are welcome to interact with this post, so long as it's in a respectful manner. I don't want to hurt anyone or push any buttons.

[little-known-artist]

Let me just say something. I'm going to mention incest ie Inucest and fandom, rape, Yaoi culture and how that's all really messed me up.

***tl;dr** your hands are tied and people will ship what they want no matter how messed up. But there's hope they'll mature out of it.

Here's the thing about shipping siblings together. It's gross. That should be all I have to say about it. However, there was a time when I was a preteen and teenager where I shipped Inuyasha and Sesshomaru together. Yeah. Anyways to make a long story short, I had never heard the word "incest" until I was 13 years old. I didn't know what it meant and I was a really stupid kid who was already "LolRawr Yaoi boys!!!" Shipping the exact terms "Inucest" and "Uchihacest" and not connecting the dots. Again, not the brightest bulb. By the time I was 15 I actually had some concept of the word, and I still thought it meant strictly shipping brothers together. The concepts of Yaoi and Incest are DIRECTLY related to one another in fandom. Yaoi mentality is 100% toxic because Yaoi is a fantasy more often than not created by cishet women. The concepts in Yaoi still, surprise surprise, reflect heteronormativity. Still reflects MlM as "sinful" but also promote abuse and degradation of the "uke" character. Roughly 95% of the Yaoi incest fics I was reading at age 12 had at least one non-consensual incident, mainly rape. You more often see this with fandoms that have brothers, Inuyasha, Supernatural, Undertale, etc. Because it's directly tied to Yaoi culture.

Where am I going with this?

When I was 14ish, I didn't see anything wrong with this. You read that right. I thought it was "hot" and "a sinful pleasure" and all that jazz. Even later in adolescence, around 17, I knew it was wrong. I knew it was wrong and that's what made it interesting to me. It was fictional though, and if someone applied it to my own brothers, I'd be skeeved out and tell them it was only fiction. Here's the thing though.

I was raped. I was being raped before I was in Kindergarten, and it was, surprise surprise, by a family member. He went to prison when my mom found out. I recently (April 2nd, 2018) found out he had been more than likely stalking me since his release, thanks to the prosecution team surprising me with as of yet the worst phone call of my life. He broke a no-contact order on several occasions. I was raped by another family member when I was nine. He moved out of state and I just don't want to deal with it. Both were incidents of incest.

"Jesus Danie, that's horrible, why are you telling us this?" Because I went through all that trauma and as a teenager, I still shipped Inuyasha and Sesshomaru, even in those non-consensual stories. It was because I had not yet come to terms with what had happened to me. I didn't realize what had happened to me was incest. When I did, I was about 18-19. However, I still thought "oh, but I wasn't effected by it." But I was. I never had any interest in dating or sex when I was a teenager. I said to myself "I'm just waiting for marriage", concerning sex. It was after I realized "hm. Maybe I'm a little messed up from that and that's why I want to wait until marriage" that I stopped shipping incest altogether. I realized how nasty it was and from age 20-23 I'd actively avoid it. In October 2017-May 2018 I began seeking therapy for other reasons and found out that 90% of the reason I was messed up was because of the sexual trauma. I was finally diagnosed with PTSD. I finally admitted that I don't ever want to have sex. I'm still in this weird "I'm attracted to men but please don't touch me below the waist" phase of trying to figure myself out.

In February, I got a new phone, and for the first time in a long time I could put all my music on it. I found out, from putting my music on shuffle while doing chores, I had an unusual trigger which threw me immediately into a panic attack. It was a song. The song was "Over and Over" By Three Days Grace. The reason was because the very first time I heard that song was during an Inusess AMV. It was well-edited and I watched that video so much I 100% associated that song with that AMV, that pairing. Now, years later, I'm in EMDR and another type of intensive trauma therapy, shaking and slapping the skip button as soon as I realized what's going on.

What I'm saying with that, is that even with people who have been through a certain type of trauma, it might not effect them until later in life. Yes. Incest is disgusting and I would love for people to just STOP shipping it. However, here's the thing about some people. They don't realize how badly it effects others. Or maybe they do, but "it's fictional! owo" and tell you to get over it because it's not real. What's worse, people, especially kids like I had been will ship something that much harder, out of spite, if you tell them it's bad. It makes it more exciting to them. I've noticed this heavily in the Undertale fandom, with the skelebros.

My suggestion? As much as I'd like to say education is key, we been tryna educate white conservatives on gay rights forever and that's worked out, hasn't it? Literally you can't win with them, especially the 15-year-olds. Don't interact with them at all unless you know them in other ways and want to sit down for a long while with them and try to have this discussion with them. Some people, especially kids, are emotional and will get angry and shut down and talk in circles because their frontal lobes aren't developed or there's legit something wrong with them.

I don't have a solution. But 11-19 year old me finally grew out of that "LOLRAWR YAOI!" phase, and all I know how to do is hope and then block anyone who I feel might trigger me. Unfortunately, people need room to grow, and I do want to give them that opportunity. Tag filtering on mobile has been amazing.

[stavoskreskas]

PSA for 13 Year Old Girls On Tumblr

Tumblr can toxic, you should check out Amino. Unlike tumblr, it’s PG 13 and moderated and you can join communities based on what you love without worrying about getting hate. Including yaoi Aminos.

Many men can also be toxic and misogynistic, this can include gay men, despite what you might think. Being part of one minority doesn’t mean you can’t hold bigoted views against another group. White gay men can be racist. Gay men can still be sexist.

“Yaoi” as used in Western fandom, is an umbrella term for stories about guys with guys, written by women for women. It’s for girls. Guys can like it too (I did and it helped me a lot with discovering my own sexuality), but it’s a genre created by women to express their own desires, and that’s great. It’s ok that some things can be ‘for girls’.

What you choose to read, write, or think about doesn’t hurt anyone. Most media frames girls and women as objects for straight men to look at and is made with the assumption that every viewer is a straight guy, therefore everyone finds women hot and women just exist to be hot.  Yaoi and Shōjo that invert the ‘male gaze’ and allow girls to look at guys as objects of desire are empowering.

It’s ok to think boys are hot. It’s ok to think girls are hot. It’s ok to think things are hot and to have a sexuality. Especially if you’ve been told it’s dirty and sinful and wrong. And it’s not treating people as a ‘fetish’. As long as you don’t sexually harass real people you’re fine (don’t be creepy to real guys, don’t treat real people like they’re fictional characters to play out fantasies with - watch Ouran High School Host Club and don’t be like Renge). Fictional characters, on the other hand, aren’t real, they’re toys for you to play with and it’s a safe place to play with figuring out who you like and what you like and exploring ideas.

Just make sure you’re mature enough to separate fiction from reality. Porn isn’t a realistic guide to sex. But here’s the thing, from a man who was once 13 too. Most boys you know IRL are probably secretly watching Hentai, like really gross hentai, I know because guys brought that stuff to school on laptops and we’d all secretly look at it together. Most boys you know IRL are probably secretly looking at real porn or not so secretly (I know someone whose grandpa gave him a bunch of Play Boys when he turned 13, because he figured ‘you’re old enough to appreciate these).

Society says, ‘boys will be boys’ and that boys are supposed to want girls and want sex and watch porn.

Society says, ‘good girls don’t’ and that girls aren’t supposed to want girls or boys or want sex or watch porn. Girls are supposed to want boys to like them and behave how men want. So girls make things for themselves, removing girls from the picture so there’s no ‘straight male gaze’. And like all romance and porn, there are problems with it. And you can aware of what’s problematic. But remember, girls making things for girls, in and of itself will make some men uncomfortable. Straight boys and some gay boys too.

But the truth is, the gender binary is made up bs. Girls can like girls, girls can like boys, girls can like the idea of being a guy with a guy, because who wouldn’t want to vicariously experience male privilege. I may have to deal with homophobes who hate that I like men, but I’ll never be slut shamed. I don’t have to worry about a guy who likes me calling me a slut if I say no or after I say yes. I don’t have to worry about being a ‘good girl’ because I’m a man. A cis man, who can never fully understand what it’s like to be treated as a girl in society (although two seconds passing as a girl while cosplaying, and you realize how constant catcalling is…)

No man really understands what you’re going through. I’ve tried to educate myself. I studied queer theory in school and I also did women’s studies, because I wanted to get it. And what I’ve learned is it’s hard to be a girl, especially a teenage girl.

And gay men and other girls should not be trying to make it harder by telling you what you’re allowed to enjoy or how you should explore your sexuality (other than telling you, please stick to fanfic and manga for awhile, you’re 13, you’re young, and guys can hurt you, even other girls can hurt you or people who don’t approve of you dating them. Wait until you’re older to explore sexuality IRL, until then, enjoy your manga, and fanfic and yaoi! Yes yaoi!)

It’s not a man’s job to tell girls what they’re allowed to do. It’s not anyone’s job, because girls are allowed to read or watch or write or draw what they want (although it is parent’s job and rating’s job to suggest if you might be too young for something).

So maybe this is less a PSA for 13 Year Old Girls and more a PSA for Gay Men who Are Trying to Shame 13 Year Old Girls - Knock it off!

[tumblunni]

Man, god, im just suddenly thinking about "ak/ur/oku" and like.. How the fuck did that even become such a huge thing in early 2000s fandom? Dear god so much early gay shipping in fandom was super unhealthy "sinful" bullshit made by straight people for fetishy purposes rather than genuine representation. But a/kurok/u was such a weird one because it was like.. Just globally accepted and never aknowledged to be problematic?? Man i still remember how lil 13 year old me didnt know there was anything wrong with it, like seriously when stuff like this becomes popularized it ends up sending bad messages to actual queer youth. Learning about your sexuality via the internet cos there's no sex ed irl for you, abd you end up stumbling into toxic fandoms before you have the critical thinking skills necessary to know that this stuff is bad and shouldnt be imitated. Like seriously one of the things i worry about EVERY NIGHT AT 2AM THAT KEEPS ME FROM SLEEPING is that stupid lil 15 year old me made a post on deviantart going like "are pedophiles really all bad? I mean it sounds like an illness. I mean maybe theyre just scared and they want help." Like im terrified constantly that someone will find that old thing and judge me as if i still believe that apologist crap, or as if it was actually an opinion i formed from a fully developed mind, rather than from a kid who (as far as i knew) had never met a pedophile, thinking about pedophiles in the abstract, while being influenced by fuckin pedophile-dominated fandoms and having NO IDEA. and of cooooourse i wanted to believe that i was mature for my age, i thought that was a compliment.. Uuuuugh...

Sorry, going a little offtopic there.

But anyway isnt it kinda weird how akur/oku was just.. Not even regarded as pedophilia? And when i was a kid it wasnt just me not understanding the gross parts of the fandom, i legit never thought axel was that much older than roxas. And it was one of the more popular gay ships cos at that point as far as we knew it was the only person axel had any sort of backstory with, and he cared so much about this guy that he was willing to sacrifice his life to help sora even when he knew roxas would never come back. At the time without further context it seemed like a reasonable assumption to make? And it wasnt until Days that i realized axel was intended to be an adult rather than a teenager, and even worse A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO MADE THAT SHIPPING ART KNEW THAT. Uuugh it was so gross in retrospect to go back and see all the clues i missed that these people were fetishizing roxas's inexperience and veey much writing him as underage. AAAAAAA!

Anyway im glad that shit is now recognized as shit and now we have canon evidence of this dude being old as balls. And honestly i love the relationship of him as a big brother/dad to roxas and xion a lot more, even though as a kid i was desperate for any kind of queer representation in kh. Like.. I never really actually liked the ship that much or felt any chemistry? I just latched onto a few bad writing flubs that could potentially be interpreted as Gay Evidence because i was SO damn desperate! Like i felt like i had to support all these gross abusive ships in fandom cos if i wasnt then i was being 'homophobic', i mean they were THE ONLY AVAILABLE OPTIONS, right? :( Its only now ive grown up i can see how wrong that was, and how people just used it as an excuse to make gross shit and get away with it. Like how in Black Butler all these 'yaoi fangirls' kept erasing the rarest of rare things, a canon trans woman, because 'its sexier if its gay'. Ughhhh. And seriously that discourse still exists for poor Grell, and there's still a lot of these shitty bigoted people pretending to be allies, but like seriously this was EVERYWHERE in 2005! And lgbt rights and even lgbt communities at all were way smaller and less available to the poor teenagers who really needed that positive influence while they were figuring out who they are. So man the abusive side of yaoi fandom was WAY more powerful, and wya more.mainstream, with barely any criticism. And the whole content of this fandom was creepy fuckin adults making pedo porn, and kids who just discovered they were queer and tried to headcanon their favourote characters as being like them. Fucking predator heaven! So yeh that ruined KH for me and definately made me scared of returning to Black Butler for almost a decade. And then i found out that the manga itself has none of that pedo shit and that one of the fandom's biggest abusive gay man archetypes was actually a trans woman this entire time, and just gahhhhh....

Also like seriously this is a tad offtopic but can we kill the anime trope of either everyone looking young or everyone looking old? Or creepy things where just one character looks the wrong age in order to fetishize pedophilia? I dont think kingdom hearts was one of those intentional ones, like i mean there's super bad shit where its like 'this 5 year old looking person is really 9000 years old/actually 18 and just hasnt had their growth spurt yet' (somehow its even more insulting when theres not even a magical excuse) Or the other way around and we have a character thats canonically underage but drawn looking sexually mature with big ol knockers so its somehow okay. The existence of those horrible things is why i end up feeling uncomfortable even seeing ambiguous ages as just a trope in completely innocent anime, yknow? Like in pokemon and digimon all the 10 year old protagonists are exactly the same height as all the adults, and all the female love interests for ash have to be early bloomers in terms of chest and hips, while notably Iris is the only one who actually looks her age and also the first non love interest. Its another reason why i prefer the new art style for the latest season, they make everyone look like kids and Lillie continues to look like a kid even though she's the main girl and has all the cute scenes with Ash. The girls even got very normal looking kiddy swimsuits in the beach episode! Why is that so uncommon, to find the bare minimum thing of underage kids not being sexualized at the beach??

Soooooo yeah, thats at least part of why kid me thought axel and roxas were within a similar age range. Like i thought roxas was maybe 16 and axel was 18?? Somehow?? I dont even know, kingdom hearts isnt even SUPER bad with the 'kids look like older teens,all adults look like age 20 at the most' anime syndrome. Its probably more because id been raised on games and anime that followed that trope, before i played kh. And as a kid you just dont really know the exact differences between 'old', like i mean i knew teenagers were tall and boys get a growth spurt, so somehow it made sense to me that axel could be the same age as roxas?? And man even if i knew he wasnt, i was barely educated at all about pedophilia and i didnt know the nuances of it. I just knew 'its bad for adults to marry kids' like man i was really behind the curve in general learning due to my undiagnosed autism and abusive parenting so like HERE'S 12 YEAR OLD ME NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT THE SEX ASPECT. And i didnt know that adults in relationships with teenagers was bad too, or like 16/17 year old teens dating kids... I was so fuckin dumb... I really cant believe that not only did i believe stupid adults saying 'pedophilia isnt bad if you're non offending, its okay to make cartoon child porn as long as you dont physically abuse real kids' but also i somehow just DID NOT EVER REALIZE that axel was an adult and roxas wasnt even a goddamn older teen...

So yeh im making a lot of excuses for why my stupid younger self was blindly parroting bullshit, but im not trying to excuse how goddamn wrong and bad it was. I still wake up ashamed in the middle of the night for crapoy decisions i made as a dumb kid, and in terrified that some shreds of it might still exist out there on the internet and maybe someone else could read it?! Gahhhh! Seriously could i have accidentally helped spread that bullshit brainwashing to other kids? And seriously when people say this shit is harmless they just need to look at this, look at how being into problematic yaoi is such a common 'phase' for ACTUAL CHILDREN. Like its not fuckin NATURAL for kids to fall into this stuff, they do it because they dont know any better but the people making the goddamn founding blocks of the fandom are fuckin grown women fetishizing gay men or grown men fetishing lesbians. There's people who do know better who actually conciously decide that a/kurok/u is a good ship while knowing all the goddamn details of what it actually is and exactly what theyre supporting by shipping it. Ughhhhh!

So yeh fuckin Please Stay Safe In Fandom, Kids

And pedophiles have absolutely none of my sympathy, please ignore that goddamn shit i wrote as a little kid being fuckin groomed by a fandom without even knowing it.

This also applies a lot to the rest of LGBT+ aside from just gay shipping, like seriously it took me til age 18 to find any positive representation of trans people or even a proper explanation of what being trans is, yet before i was even 8 years old i'd seen a million 'lol gross man in a dress who gets sexual gratification from wearing women's underwear' jokes in kids shows. And when i was 12 i'd already been exposed to the fuckin hell of m/pre/g thanks to its prevelance of untagged n/sf/w shit in the kh fandom. And by age 15 i'd been exposed to pedophile apologists arguing whether child porn was okay if they only got off to that and didnt personally abuse that kid with their own hands. All of that shit but actually learning about homosexuality and gender in sex ed would have been 'too much' for someone my age...

God what a fuckin mess. Fuck im really really fuckin worried that any of my ignorant comments at those ages could have been read by other ignorant kids and contributed to that disgusting fandom atmosphere. Fuck i think about this so damn often im so damn ashamed of how ignorant i used to be yet i know the adult fuckfaces making pedo shit never reel one lick of shame any damn day of their life. I used to excuse their shit as an actual kid cos i just ASSUMED they would be ashamed and want to seek help! Gahhhh..

[nerdfighterwhatevernumbers]

Sometimes I see “fandom elders” talk about how we’re ruining fandom culture by doing stuff that didn’t happen in their day, and when it’s stuff like utilizing tumblr callout culture to ruin someone’s life because of something no one bothered to research, yeah, but sometimes they talk about stuff that shouldn’t be defended?

Like they’ll talk about giving creators and fans free reign to do whatever they want because creating a safe space for artists and fans is important, and fans should interact regardless of age, and people should do fandom how they want, but let me tell you, I was a baby fan in the old days and some of that stuff? messed me up a little. 

I’m not torn to shreds, I got out pretty unscathed, but there was definitely stuff that should not have been happening in fandom that was and people just accepted it. 

I was into Naruto and came across stuff fetishizing child rape fairly often, you think that was okay for a middle schooler? I didn’t even have to look for it, it would just be there. Adults were roleplaying sexual scenes with minors on fansites all the time, or even just modding pages and allowing minors, but it was ‘basically okay’ because it was ‘just fan stuff’. That’s not even getting into the rampant homophobia and transphobia and misogyny, especially among yaoi fangirls. 

That taught me a ton of toxic crap about women and queer people and had all kinds of gross misinformed ideas hiding under the guise of ‘progress’ and ‘sex positivity’

I mean, some older fans back then were only 18 or 20 and know better now, but sometimes they still defend fandom cultures that do this stuff in the name of ‘freedom’ for the fans, as if gay men saying ‘stop romanticizing the rape of gay children’ to women is a form of censorship. 

They use the slippery slope fallacy to justify people not interfering when something messed up needs to be addressed

They’ll call back to the old days when they could do what they wanted to other fans but still lived in fear of copyright hounds, so now they see fans trying to eliminate toxic behavior as a threat to their freedom of expression without any care for the damage it does because their freedom in fandom is more important to them than the real people they’re hurting